Established 2v2 MLG Gametype Settings

[stunt_man 91]

Hello OC,

 

I'm not sure how high-level the players here are, but I've seen some discussion about gametype settings on here and I'm wondering what you all think of the following:

 

Players of the original Xbox version of the game have been using the same universally-agreed-upon gametype for almost 15 years. But why?

 

And more curiously: why aren't these settings ever used in Halo PC?

 

Here are the main MLG Team Slayer gametype settings:

 

-Based off the Slayer Pro gametype

-No radar

-2v2

-4-frag starts (not possible without custom SAPP settings - bug in Halo PC)

-Pistol/AR starts

-5 second respawn time

 

These settings are law for the highest-level Halo 1 players. The gametype unarguably offers the deepest metagame and hosts the highest-level matches.

 

I have a theory about why this gametype is rarely used in Halo PC. First of all, when Halo PC was released it was the first time that players could easily get into 16-player matches. Due to this, everyone swarmed to big CTF games on large maps. The metagame for Halo PC is built around these gametypes, even though the settings have little thought put into them (in most cases, default settings are used). All there really is to it most of the time is out-shooting your opponents.

 

In contrast, the metagame on Xbox revolves around spawn manipulation, weapon timing and in consequence, map control. Communication is a key factor as well, seeing as competitive matches on Xbox are played with only two consoles (on LAN), with each team of 2 using split-screen. This is actually a huge advantage and means that players don't need to call out as much.

 

I'm unsure of what people think about all this. I have a strong feeling that most players are open to experimentation after years of playing Blood Gulch CTF with default settings.

 

If anyone's interested, I have an Excel spreadsheet with the full gametype settings for MLG 2v2 as well as many other gametypes established by the competitive community (TWL, etc).

 

 

What are your favourite gametypes? Do you think settings matter as much on the PC version, where kill-times are significantly shorter with keyboard/mouse? Try to articulate the PC version's metagame, if such a feat is even possible - I'm a server host as well as a mapmaker, so discussions like this impact design philosophy.

[NeX 1,756]

The metagame for Halo CE is interesting, for sure. I played competitively in the clan scene for the better part of a decade, doing every classic map in every possible configuration of gametypes with all numbers of players. Used to have actual overhead map diagrams with codes for each specific location on the map, etc.

Tons of fun.

 

However, what eventually turned me off/got me tired of it, was that it always always devolved from "Halo CE" to

 

PiStOL WaRZ BrUH!

 

The H1 pistol was so massively overpowered and game breaking that it is the weapon of choice for every possible combat situation barring extreme range. Even then, it's second best to only the sniper at range, and maybe the shotgun up close. However, with the shotgun argument, the shotty has to have the element of surprise, because a 3sk doesn't take very long. You're looking at either the first two shotgun shells get the kill, or the shotty player dies, 90% of the time. 

 

Obviously a heavy weapon is preferable for easy, quick kills, but again, just about every other weapon is delegated to the back seat when the pistol is involved. Huge magazine, massive damage per shot, extremely small TTK, 132 bullets max, it was literally disgustingly OP.

 

I love this game the most of any game ever, EVER. But it's such a tunnel-vision game on a competitive level that it really doesn't do the tagset justice. I prefer watching any other halo game played competitively because the tagset has lateral movement for different situations. Especially H2/H3. H5 is looking very good so far, but who knows how that could go.

 

This whole disparity was what originally drove me to remake the MP maps for my project.

 

Just my two cents, I'm sure others here will chime in.

[Kavawuvi 7,026]

From what it looks like, the functionality was actually completely taken out for adapting the frag grenades to the player count, as Halo just reads the default grenade count from the map file (set to 2). In fact, the demo version of Halo actually spawned players with 4 grenades, from what I remember, and the default grenade count was still set to 2.

 

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that players have to start at the same time in the Xbox version, where players can join whenever on the PC version.

Edited August 7, 2015 by 002

[NeX 1,756]

There are a lot of subtle differences between xbox and PC combat evolved classic gameplay. I had to set custom netgame equipment spawn times for a lot of weapons and equipment in rev to balance it out.

Any specific causes for this, 002? Youre probably the most qualified person to answer this, and its always been a minor irritation to me in terms of convenience.

[stunt_man 91]

But it's such a tunnel-vision game on a competitive level that it really doesn't do the tagset justice. I prefer watching any other halo game played competitively because the tagset has lateral movement for different situations. Especially H2/H3. H5 is looking very good so far, but who knows how that could go.

 

This whole disparity was what originally drove me to remake the MP maps for my project.

 

Just my two cents, I'm sure others here will chime in.

 

Last time I checked everyone used the BR in H2/H3, much like everyone uses the pistol in H1. Of all the differences between H1 and its successors, the pistol isn't even close to being the most glaring.

 

Watch these two videos and tell me which one seems to have deeper gameplay mechanics:

 

Halo 1: 

 

Halo 3: 

 

You're entitled to your opinion - I'm not trying to rustle you or anything. Just opening a discussion about high-level play

Edited August 8, 2015 by stunt_man

[Kavawuvi 7,026]

There are a lot of subtle differences between xbox and PC combat evolved classic gameplay. I had to set custom netgame equipment spawn times for a lot of weapons and equipment in rev to balance it out.

Any specific causes for this, 002? Youre probably the most qualified person to answer this, and its always been a minor irritation to me in terms of convenience.

 

There is a significant amount of missing content that the Xbox version has that the PC version does not. The huge one that sticks out like a sore thumb, especially in maps like Blood Gulch and Rat Race, is the teleporter shader. I attempted to import the teleporter shader from the Xbox version of Halo by batch extraction of the bloodgulch.map into the Eschaton format (the Xbox version has all of its bitmaps and sounds internalized into the maps - bloodgulch.map is pretty big), only to find that the type of shader it uses is not supported at all on Halo PC and will not render (the teleporter will be invisible). I checked to see if it was corrupted, and it turns out that Halo doesn't even bother reading it, as if it was nulled out. I'm unsure why they would remove support for such an amazing shader and replace it with a crappy shader that looks like barf, which makes me wonder if the PC version is based on an older version of the Xbox version.

 

Halo PC uses a dumbed down schi shader, while the Xbox version uses a sotr shader.

 

 

 

on-topic: Halo PC has a metagame? The first thing people do when they spawn is change weapons, and then they stay with the pistol forever, unless they can find a sniper.

 

Some people turn on Classic mode so the flamethrower and fuel rod gun don't spawn. There's also generic starting equipment which can be turned on in a gametype, which makes it so all stock maps allow you to spawn with the same exact spawning equipment (Assault Rifle, Pistol, 2 Frag Grenades by default) regardless of what is set up in that particular map.

Edited August 8, 2015 by 002

[stunt_man 91]

on-topic: Halo PC has a metagame? The first thing people do when they spawn is change weapons, and then they stay with the pistol forever, unless they can find a sniper.

 

Some people turn on Classic mode so the flamethrower and fuel rod gun don't spawn.

 

Metagame doesn't necessary equal weapon variety.

 

But for argument's sake: between the pistol and sniper, timing the rocket launcher and powerups, combined with finishing up enemies with your assault rifle or your 4 frag grenades (that you're supposed to spawn with), there's an awful lot more to the sandbox than just the pistol, like you're suggesting. And that's only half of it - you can try to do all of the above and still get crushed by players with a comprehensive knowledge of all the spawn points and random-spawn areas in a map. There's far more to the game than simply 3-shotting everyone - to call it "basic" or to go as far as describing it as "tunnelvision" compared to the later games, let's just say I'll need you guys to elaborate.

 

Though I suppose it can't be helped if most gametypes that are hosted actively discourage the use of heavies and powerups.

 

Concerning the fuel rod gun and flamethrower - these weren't originally designed to be part of the sandbox. The FRG is ridiculously overpowered. I enjoy some other gametypes with these weapons enabled, but they have no place in a competitive setting.

 

 

PS: as for the teleporter shaders, you're right about the unsupported shader format. The closest alternative is in the map Sali Creek, but it's a shader meant for scenery objects (ex: it's not part of the BSP but in fact added afterwards during level population) so it can't be applied to maps where the teleporter shaders are part of the level geometry (this is the case for most stock maps). Another good teleporter shader can be found in Downrush_h1.5 and Zerohour_h1.5. That's the one I'll probably be using for my stuff (along with the lumoria HUD )

[Kavawuvi 7,026]

Metagame doesn't necessary equal weapon variety.

I know. Most people I've seen don't actually bother with weapon variety. Some people do, and it actually sometimes upsets other people, especially if it actually beats them (e.g. being called a "hog noob" for killing a bunch of people with the warthog, and dodging grenades successfully). It's very disappointing.

Edited August 8, 2015 by 002