Are you personally responsible for offending or provoking others?

[Weps 1,378]

Now, I agree that you should be prepared to defend yourself if it seems physical harm may be attempted on you. However I disagree that you have to accept there are repercussions for that speech; what you have to accept is that not everyone respects the line, that these are words and any more is too far, and prepare to defend yourself due to that. I would never say that physical attacks are repercussions for free speech, as then it's not free. Those actions can be predicted if you are responsible, but it doesn't mean that the person attacking is justified in his attack. He has the same freedom of speech you do, but instead of exercising it the way you are, he is choosing to escalate.

 

That was my overall point, but yeah.

 

While that's true, words aren't harm being done to you. Being unable to control your emotions and lashing out violently is simply improper. You are allowed to reasonably defend yourself from any attack, and the only attack occurring is a verbal or written one; so reasonable defense is a verbal or written one. It just so happens that the aggressor has the right to be aggressive in this context, while in a violent context only the defending party is justified.

 

I think this is dependent on the situation and the verbal attacker. 

 

Oh I believe they grasp the fragility; I believe they grasp it well enough to know that they can attack it without anyone doing them harm, because contrary to what they might say, they do realize that we as a people are generally responsible in comparison to many other peoples.

 

I don't think they understand the fragility, they're too narrow minded and in their own world to realize it. It's more of that they say what they want, no retribution is visited upon them, so they feel emboldened. 

 

What happened?

 

They willingly terrorized innocent kids and adults, forced them against their will, and arrested my brother for asking questions and standing up for his rights. This wasn't some punk who was out roaming the streets in the dark, slashing tires, being a jackass. He was playing airsoft with his friends and my youngest brother, in a field they had prior permission to be in, away from homes and public view.

 

(Please keep in mind, as I say "boys", I mean both minors and adults) 

 

A nosy neighbor who saw them passing by, in a friends yard, called the police because they were in camouflage and looked like they had "paintball weapons". Let me explain that this is not the first, second or hundredth time they've played there, I've played there myself. I heard the 911 call, the neighbor wasn't upset, or scared, or terrified. She called about kids wearing camouflage and to ask if it was legal to carry a firearm within a residential area. (We live outside of a major military base, the gate is less than a mile from this field) The dispatcher acted as if she didn't even hear the questions, but acknowledged to hearing "camouflage" and "firearm", repeatedly asking the woman if she wanted officers to respond. The dispatcher verbally pushed her into having officers respond to her call. 

 

I'd much rather have had the neighbor poke her head outside her backdoor and ask, but people are enamored with "See something, say something". This is what they looked like while playing out in the field;

 

 

They'd been playing for nearly 30 minutes. My brother heard sirens, which were getting closer. He advised the others to set down their airsoft guns and just stand in a group until the sirens passed, just in case. 

 

Not five minutes after this, police came fading out of a tree line, AR15's raised at the boys, screaming contradicting orders. The boys went spread eagle, as the officers bared down on them, weapons still aimed. As the officers reached the boys, they remained poised with their weapons trained on the boys, as other officers patted the boys down and them remove equipment from their persons. 

 

Other officers had skirted around the field, in the tree line, to "flank" another one of the boys, who'd been separated from others and hadn't heard or seen what was going on. The officer "surprised" the guy and "scared the shit out of him" as the officer put it. 

 

Up until this point, everything was corroborated via first person accounts and some PD documentation. 

 

This is where video exists and it wasn't provided by police. One of the boys had a Go Pro attached to his "rifle", they like to record their airsoft battles and post them to YouTube...like most people that play airsoft. 

 

This is were it gets really interesting. 

 

 

 

After my brother stood up for their rights, he was summiarly arrested on a charge that doesn't exist, nor was included on his charge sheet. He was charged with three acts he didn't commit. I saw the discovery file, most of which was pointless, because after the initial call, no radio communications between the EIGHT officers that responded exists. 

 

The arresting report contained pointless, yet vilifiying describers and "amended" information. 

 

Of course, local politicans had been implicated along the line, so they were really gunning for him. Until the media got invloved, which was probably his saving grace. 

 

He got off with a guilty plea, but with no charges. He had to admit the police had a "right" to be present and force him to comply. 

 

he would have taken it further, but neither him, nor my parents are well off. He's a working man, with a decent job at a warehouse as a supervisor...he didn't have the money to combat the county. Same with my folks, my mother is a homemaker, my father is 28 years Army retired, who were running a struggling business.

[Solaris 3,581]

A lot of conflict is dependent on the context and the approach. Being militant will obviously land you an ear full or getting decked. If two people cannot rationally discuss a conflict of interest, it will always result in unresolved conflict. I know it sounds broad, but it's such a common error in communication between two people.

 

On the topic of offensive vs provoking, it's circumstantial. The problem about knowing the difference between the two is that you have to be there and listen to what individuals are saying to each other. If you don't know the context of the argument, it's hard to make a judgement based on two individuals stories with no witnesses to confirm one or the other (or neither).

 

As far as rights are concerned, there is no such thing as free speech. What is free speech and socially acceptable is dictated by the culture you live amongst.

[TCK 2,164]

I don't think they understand the fragility, they're too narrow minded and in their own world to realize it. It's more of that they say what they want, no retribution is visited upon them, so they feel emboldened.

Well, that is true, I can see that. The bit about no retribution is definitely what I was getting at when I said they know that everyone around them is overall too responsible to do anything about what they're saying.

They willingly terrorized innocent kids and adults, forced them against their will, and arrested my brother for asking questions and standing up for his rights. This wasn't some punk who was out roaming the streets in the dark, slashing tires, being a jackass. He was playing airsoft with his friends and my youngest brother, in a field they had prior permission to be in, away from homes and public view.

 

(Please keep in mind, as I say "boys", I mean both minors and adults) 

 

A nosy neighbor who saw them passing by, in a friends yard, called the police because they were in camouflage and looked like they had "paintball weapons". Let me explain that this is not the first, second or hundredth time they've played there, I've played there myself. I heard the 911 call, the neighbor wasn't upset, or scared, or terrified. She called about kids wearing camouflage and to ask if it was legal to carry a firearm within a residential area. (We live outside of a major military base, the gate is less than a mile from this field) The dispatcher acted as if she didn't even hear the questions, but acknowledged to hearing "camouflage" and "firearm", repeatedly asking the woman if she wanted officers to respond. The dispatcher verbally pushed her into having officers respond to her call. 

 

I'd much rather have had the neighbor poke her head outside her backdoor and ask, but people are enamored with "See something, say something". This is what they looked like while playing out in the field;

 

 

They'd been playing for nearly 30 minutes. My brother heard sirens, which were getting closer. He advised the others to set down their airsoft guns and just stand in a group until the sirens passed, just in case. 

 

Not five minutes after this, police came fading out of a tree line, AR15's raised at the boys, screaming contradicting orders. The boys went spread eagle, as the officers bared down on them, weapons still aimed. As the officers reached the boys, they remained poised with their weapons trained on the boys, as other officers patted the boys down and them remove equipment from their persons. 

 

Other officers had skirted around the field, in the tree line, to "flank" another one of the boys, who'd been separated from others and hadn't heard or seen what was going on. The officer "surprised" the guy and "scared the shit out of him" as the officer put it. 

 

Up until this point, everything was corroborated via first person accounts and some PD documentation. 

 

This is where video exists and it wasn't provided by police. One of the boys had a Go Pro attached to his "rifle", they like to record their airsoft battles and post them to YouTube...like most people that play airsoft. 

 

This is were it gets really interesting. 

 

 

 

After my brother stood up for their rights, he was summiarly arrested on a charge that doesn't exist, nor was included on his charge sheet. He was charged with three acts he didn't commit. I saw the discovery file, most of which was pointless, because after the initial call, no radio communications between the EIGHT officers that responded exists. 

 

The arresting report contained pointless, yet vilifiying describers and "amended" information. 

 

Of course, local politicans had been implicated along the line, so they were really gunning for him. Until the media got invloved, which was probably his saving grace. 

 

He got off with a guilty plea, but with no charges. He had to admit the police had a "right" to be present and force him to comply. 

 

he would have taken it further, but neither him, nor my parents are well off. He's a working man, with a decent job at a warehouse as a supervisor...he didn't have the money to combat the county. Same with my folks, my mother is a homemaker, my father is 28 years Army retired, who were running a struggling business.

Ah that's right, I recall you making a thread a while back.