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Future of MCC PC: Playercounts

30 posts in this topic

Not gonna lie it's kinda already lost me. Reach and CE are cool but playing the same 4 games over and over got really old. Server browsers allow for a vastly larger amount of options rather than some curated playlist. Adding wait times to the monotony only fuels the boredom.

 

Besides, the only thing it would take to make mods blow up is a server browser. It's almost unconscionably stupid that they elected to not have one right from the start. Time will tell if they add one. I'm not holding my breath.

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Kavawuvi: one of these days these glutes are gonna squawk all over you

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Tiddy-bits:

5 hours ago, Kavawuvi said:

Eventually games die down in popularity, and as you know, matchmaking needs literally thousands of players or else players are going to be waiting longer and longer for games. So, yeah, I'd argue having a server browser is, for the long term, more important. Having matchmaking is fine, of course, when the game is still in its prime, and I'm sure there's a good amount of convenience in doing so.

 

343 Industries, unfortunately, decided to just use matchmaking, and this *will* exponentially kill their game as players leave in frustration.

My point is that arguing about either being objectively better than the other is absolutely pointless. There's no reason for both not to exist. If people in the community start arguing over which is better, the conversation starts becoming "Which should they choose to implement into the game?" In the end, developers will always choose matchmaking over a browser because it gives them more control. If the conversation is steered towards "Hey, both of these can and should live in harmony", it helps everyone.

 

I've noticed that gaming communities always want to argue which method is better than the other to death when, in reality, we rarely ever actually have to decide. Why not both? Nope. Always has to be one way or the highway.

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"You fix my mistakes is what you do." - Tucker
"You're useless." - Tucker 2 minutes later

"You're sort of cool in some ways." - Kavawuvi

 

"Fuck off." - Mint Blitz

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I played MCC PC for a few hours just to see what it was about and what (if anything) they changed in the engine.  Found they had adjusted the BSP collision physics so moving outside of map geometry is basically no longer possible (the majority of the space outside of maps is solid space, at least on the few maps I tested on).  I get why they did it: people getting squished out of the map geometry and falling into the void is pretty immersion-breaking, but it was still a bit of a bummer for me because it kills a bunch of fun glitches you could do.

Ultimately, I decided MCC PC didn't really offer me anything over OG Halo.  Yeah, it has slightly shinier graphics, but other than that it's the same game minus a bunch of nice perks:

- Mods

- Devmode

- Server hosting

I appreciate the thought and work that goes into "porting" games to PC, but I feel like if they aren't adding anything new it's just not an economical decision.  I mean, I'm sure people are shilling out money because Halo is nostalgia and people like the idea of reliving that nostalgia, but I think buying it is a pretty bad choice for CE players at least.  It just doesn't make sense when we have Custom Edition which is quite simply a better option because of the community (and the tools that have been made).

If they would add theater to Halo CE then it would actually give me a reason to be interested, but as of now they are offering me literally nothing over the older editions of the game.

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On 5/4/2020 at 1:45 AM, Mator said:

I played MCC PC for a few hours just to see what it was about and what (if anything) they changed in the engine.  Found they had adjusted the BSP collision physics so moving outside of map geometry is basically no longer possible (the majority of the space outside of maps is solid space, at least on the few maps I tested on).  I get why they did it: people getting squished out of the map geometry and falling into the void is pretty immersion-breaking, but it was still a bit of a bummer for me because it kills a bunch of fun glitches you could do.

Yeah, I noticed that a while back. It angers me a bit because they claimed they weren't going to fix any of the glitches that were present in the previous games because they wanted to preserve the games as they were but just make them more comfortable to play. It really only seems like they did it with Halo: Combat Evolved as well.

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"You fix my mistakes is what you do." - Tucker
"You're useless." - Tucker 2 minutes later

"You're sort of cool in some ways." - Kavawuvi

 

"Fuck off." - Mint Blitz

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Posted (edited)

On 4/19/2020 at 5:04 AM, Pfhunkie said:

The entire collection is doomed without a server browser and modding support. If those aren't in by the time 343 is done with it, it won't last like CE has.

 

I'm with you 100% on this.  I pre-ordered Halo MCC on Steam and I've tried to play Multiplayer, but I just can't.  I'll just list everything I don't like about it:

  • I could care less for Unlocks/Ranks.  I just want to play.
  • Social/Competitive Games - I'll pass.  Matchmaking is the reason I never really got into Halo 2...if I remember correctly.
  • Custom Games is a joke.  I can only invite my friends and I have to start adding randoms just to be able to invite players?  No thanks.
  • No Server Browser, therefore no way for me to only play in servers with settings that I know I like (in my case, CTF with heavy weapons) is an instant turn-off for me.  I created a custom game for it, but what's the point if you can't find anyone to play with?  Not only that, I leave the server and the game is over, so others cannot enjoy it in my absence.  Sorry, this is pathetic.

I've heard that this is a newer general trend of game makers, that is, to no longer allow dedicated servers so Multiplayer players have to rely on playlists.  If this is true, I'm finding a new hobby, particularly after they manage to pull Halo: Combat Evolved from my cold dead hands.  The ONLY good places to play are in dedicated servers...unless of course the dedicated servers are run by corrupt individuals, but that's kind of rare, anyways.

Edited by CartmansPieHole

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Even though I was saying it shouldn't be a debate between server browser and matchmaking, I feel like with all the hate it gets in this thread, some positives should be said for matchmaking in addition to a server browser.

 

I was just reminiscing on playing classic PC games and thought about one of THE most annoying things about server browsers. Having the only available option to play online being a server browser usually leaves you in the hands of the community and, to be honest, those aren't great hands to be held in most of the time. Here are a few points to be made:

 

1. Unfair bans.

 

I can't count how many times I've been banned in games for being too good. In many of the games I've experienced this in, I'm not that much an exceptional player but it seems like if you display any amount of decent skill, an admin on the server is bound to accuse you of hacking out of spite. @Tucker933 can attest to this as we were once banned from a BF3 server for doing really well, Tucker joined their forum, contested the ban, got is back in the server, we started growing friendships with the people in the community, and then got banned AGAIN for the same thing just because they were so salty about getting beat down.

 

2. Admins that see no problem in abusing their power to ruin games.

 

I've been in so many servers where games are going well. I'm having a blast. Then, suddenly, some stupid shit starts going down with the admins. The first memory that comes to mind is classic Halo 2 Vista where the lobby was halted because SmG Cloud decided that it would be more fun for him and his friends to make themselves invincible and start chucking plasmas down from the top of Lockout at the people in the lobby. Stuff like this happens all of the time and it drives me nuts. I'll admit, I've been a part of this a time or two myself years ago but it just kills the fun for everyone else.

 

3. If a game dies sufficiently, you end up with more servers than players.

 

This has happened to Halo PC recently. On its current trajectory, it seems like the variety in what you can find a match will be completely gone. While a matchmaking based game will leave you with one playlist active, a browser normally leaves you with only one very specific game mode and hopefully more than one map to play on. While @Kavawuvi said it takes thousands, in reality, a properly working matchmaking system only needs around a little over a hundred to work. I mean hell, Halo 2 in its last breaths had much less than that but matchmaking was still making lobbies and with that, a playlist can lead to greater variety than you would normally find in a game that only has a couple servers left. I'm willing to bet if two servers were left in Halo 1, they'd both be FFA Prisoner.

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"You fix my mistakes is what you do." - Tucker
"You're useless." - Tucker 2 minutes later

"You're sort of cool in some ways." - Kavawuvi

 

"Fuck off." - Mint Blitz

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15 hours ago, Pfhunkie said:

3. If a game dies sufficiently, you end up with more servers than players.

 

This has happened to Halo PC recently. On its current trajectory, it seems like the variety in what you can find a match will be completely gone. While a matchmaking based game will leave you with one playlist active, a browser normally leaves you with only one very specific game mode and hopefully more than one map to play on. While @Kavawuvi said it takes thousands, in reality, a properly working matchmaking system only needs around a little over a hundred to work. I mean hell, Halo 2 in its last breaths had much less than that but matchmaking was still making lobbies and with that, a playlist can lead to greater variety than you would normally find in a game that only has a couple servers left. I'm willing to bet if two servers were left in Halo 1, they'd both be FFA Prisoner.

If we're going to talk about Halo PC, Halo PC may have a lot of empty servers, but at least I can get into some game without waiting an excessive amount of time. I suppose it depends on your tastes - not everyone likes racing, not everyone likes CTF, not everyone likes FFA, and absolutely nobody likes zombies (even if they say they do). Admittedly, if you're out for some sort of competitive experience (e.g. 2v2/4v4/8 FFA vanilla), though, you probably won't be able to instantly jump into that on Halo PC most times of the day unless you're willing to sit in an empty server for a good ten minutes before enough people join.

 

I've found that getting that on MCC's matchmaking also carries quite a wait time (except you also have to wait in between games). Obviously MCC is much more than just Halo: CEA, but considering almost nobody cares about Halo: CE, that portion of the game may as well be considered "dead" too. Only being able to get big team games on Halo: CEA without waiting forever is disheartening considering I could have just gone onto Halo PC to get exactly the same thing, but nearly instantaneous.

 

I'm certainly not saying that matchmaking can't work (after all, Xbox 360's Halo 3 worked pretty well even as the player count waned), but if you're right, then that could also mean that MCC probably does not have a "properly working matchmaking system". I think MCC's matchmaking also has a similar problem to Halo PC except, rather than too many empty servers, it has too many empty playlists. Or, really, too many playlists/combinations in general.

 

I've found that, unless I select only the ones that are popular, it'll take a long while to get games (if I even get one). I think the problem is that the player count (which is several thousand) is actually divided into the "game size" you selected which is then subdivided by the games (e.g. Halo 2) and categories (e.g. SWAT). Unless I choose everything (or at least the ones most people are actually playing), I won't get games very quickly, but if I do choose everything, I've found I generally get the same games. For example, I prefer FFA, but I've found that the 8 player FFA almost never gets games on Halo: CEA, while on Reach, I almost always only get SWAT, or I just get precision/auto slayer with Halo 2 and Halo 2: Anniversary.

 

Basically, the sheer number of options spreads things way too thin for the game's own good. At the time of writing this, the game has over 8000 players online on Steam, but I'm only going to be matched with a fraction of that at any given time, and not having cross-play with console further weakens this implementation. Honestly, I think 343 Industries needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with something that is sane for one game. (And include a server browser dammit!)

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Yeah, at this point, they need to either go back to the old style of matchmaking where you have a few focused playlists and introduce a server browser if they're not going to commit to cross-platform. Either way, they should introduce the server browser alongside but with cross-platform, at least the player numbers would support the current matchmaking system.

 

One thing that hurts this new system is there's no way to actively see how many people are searching within the criteria you're putting in. You can only make your best guesses. In the past, it's been clearly visible how many people are searching the playlist you're going for which lets you know whether or not it's even worth it to try.

 

I also think their system tries very hard to keep players in specific regions rather than relaxing it immediately when it sees there are too few people in a region to get a game.


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"You fix my mistakes is what you do." - Tucker
"You're useless." - Tucker 2 minutes later

"You're sort of cool in some ways." - Kavawuvi

 

"Fuck off." - Mint Blitz

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God damn I hate matchmaking!

 

Currently waiting like 10 minutes for a match and even got time to make a forum post about it! :angry:

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