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World Conflict Thread

280 posts in this topic

So when you talk of "Israeli" aggression and "instigation", I really have to wonder what you're talking about.

Alright, you know what you're talking about. I'll post what I'm basing my post off of.

There are two primary issues at the core of this continuing conflict. First, there is the inevitably destabilizing effect of trying to maintain an ethnically preferential state, particularly when it is largely of foreign origin. The original population of what is now Israel was 96 percent Muslim and Christian, yet, these refugees are prohibited from returning to their homes in the self-described Jewish state (and those within Israel are subjected to systematic discrimination).

Second, Israel's continued military occupation and confiscation of privately owned land in the West Bank, and control over Gaza, are extremely oppressive, with Palestinians having minimal control over their lives. Over 10,000 Palestinian men, women, and children are held in Israeli prisons. Few of them have had a legitimate trial; Physical abuse and torture are frequent. Palestinian borders (even internal ones) are controlled by Israeli forces. Periodically men, women, and children are strip searched; people are beaten; women in labor are prevented from reaching hospitals (at times resulting in death); food and medicine are blocked from entering Gaza, producing an escalating humanitarian crisis. Israeli forces invade almost daily, injuring, kidnapping, and sometimes killing inhabitants.

According to the Oslo peace accords of 1993, these territories were supposed to finally become a Palestinian state. However, after years of Israel continuing to confiscate land and conditions steadily worsening, the Palestinian population rebelled. (The Barak offer, widely reputed to be generous, was anything but.) This uprising, called the "Intifada" (Arabic for "shaking off") began at the end of September 2000.

U.S. Involvement

Largely due to special-interest lobbying, U.S. taxpayers give Israel an average of $8 million per day, and since its creation have given more U.S. funds to Israel than to any other nation. As Americans learn about how Israel is using our tax dollars, many are calling for an end to this expenditure.

Taken from: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

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"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah." -Quran 2:193

 

It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it. -Quran 9:33

 

And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth! -Quran 9:28-30

 

A man whose face was covered with an iron mask (i.e. clad in armor) came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first? "The Prophet said, "Embrace Islam first and then fight." So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, A Little work, but a great reward. "(He did very little (after embracing Islam), but he will be rewarded in abundance)." - Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:63

 

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: "Allah's Apostle said, "A time will come upon the people, when a group of people will wage a holy war and it will be said, 'Is there amongst you anyone who has accompanied Allah's Apostle?' They will say, 'Yes.' And so victory will be bestowed on them. Then a time will come upon the people when a group of people will wage a holy war, and it will be said, "Is there amongst you a none who has accompanied the companions of Allah's Apostle?' They will say, 'Yes.' And so victory will be bestowed on them. Then a time will come upon the people when a group of people will wage a holy war, and it will be said, "Is there amongst you anyone who has been in the company of the companions of the companions of Allah's Apostle ?' They will say, 'Yes.' And victory will be bestowed on them."— Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:57:1 

 

And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the religion of your father Abraham*. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this [Quran]: [He chose you so that] the Messenger may be a witness [of this religion] to you, and you be witnesses of this religion to non-Muslims [of your times].—Quran 22:78

 

From the HAMAS covenant:

 

The Prophet, allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (Killing the Jews)...

 

This doesn't excuse the Israeli government from attacking like crazy, but now you all know what the Muslims plan to do. The craziness of the religion goes on. Not to the times Mohammed slept with little girls, deflowering one at age 9. If you are even willing to listen and read then I give you this verse from the bible explaining the future rise of the Arabs, and the rise of war against the Jews(Islam).

 

11 The angel of the Lord also said to her:
 
“You are now pregnant
    and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael(Mohammed is a descendant of him),
    for the Lord has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
    his hand will be against everyone
    and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
    toward all his brothers.” -Genesis 16
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As of late, the Israel Government has been relatively restrained and forgiving, in light of the continued purposeful launching of mortars, rockets, and missiles into highly populated city centers.

Since the start of this recent round of hostilities, Israel has hit some 1,400 targets in Gaza with airstrikes via F-15's and F-16's, which a death toll of 120. Realistically for asymmetrical, urban warfare that is an astronomically low number for such a heavily populated area with that much ordnance having been deployed. Additionally, those numbers are provided via the Gaza Health Ministry, so it can not be independently varied if those reported deaths are that of Hamas agents or bystanders.

Israeli Forces drop warning leaflets, send mass texts, and deploy "roof knock" techniques before bombing a target.

May I also remind everyone that it is the Jewish people that suffered mass genocide as the result of a political regime gaining control. I don't find their distrust or reaction too off the mark when it comes to defense.

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Fuck Israel, they're scumbags. They're just as bad as any of the terrorist nations we fight against, except they're oppressive of their own citizens. When polls are run for public opinion, Israel is consistently rated the 3rd worst country IN THE WORLD. Only behind Saudi and Iraq(maybe? cant remember)

The whole country is filled with a bunch of holier-than-thou assholes who's only interest is bombing everybody around them, all so that they can stay in a place that they don't belong in anyway.

Imagine if Russia came to us, and said "Hey, buddy, friend...California, Washington, that whole west coast of yours. Yeah we kinda forgot you owned that, we gave it to North Korea, it's theirs now. So just pack your shit and get outta there, leave your homes that you've lived in for generations behind. That house is a Korean's now."

 

 

 

May I also remind everyone that it is the Jewish people that suffered mass genocide as the result of a political regime gaining control. I don't find their distrust or reaction too off the mark when it comes to defense.

 

 

Nah. That shit isn't gonna fly, that is NOT an excuse. I don't care how many Jews were killed by Hitler, it actually wasn't even a lot. Hitler killed 15 million total, only 6 million were Jews. 2/5ths of the total. Did we make a place for the Gypsies? Did we instantly start making life good for homosexuals, cripples, the mentally unfit? Do they get some happy land all of their own, right in the middle of people that hate them? Did we say "Hey Texas, the gays are here now. Move out!"

And on top of that; Stalin's killed 23 million. Where's their private land? Mao killed 75 million. Do you even know what kind of people he killed? Who were they, right now, without looking it up? Why did he kill them? 75 MILLION PEOPLE MURDERED, you probably don't know why. But you know ALL about the 6 million.

And so now, a previous genocide means they get a free pass forever? Some asshole killed a bunch of you one time, so now you can do whatever you want forever and we'll just sorta be understanding of it? Bullshit. So no home for the gays, no land for the mentally unfit....hm. I wonder what type of influence a bunch of rich-for-all-of-history people would've had in getting their own country made...

 

Let them bomb their neighbors, let their neighbors bomb them. Let them both vanish into the dust, and we'll be left with a hole in the dirt where our trash used to be. The only reason we have problems in the middle east is because we're on the losing side and instead of cutting losses and folding hand, we're going all in.

If we had never made Israel we'd have a lot less enemies, if we hadn't bought a military for them we'd have even less.

Edited by DeadHamster
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As of late, the Israel Government has been relatively restrained and forgiving,

I disagree. Taking people's land, and then killing slightly less people than they could have doesn't make them restrained and forgiving, it just makes them disdainful.

http://rememberthesechildren.org/about.html

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp

http://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20140711_protective_edge_preliminary_data

deaths.png

 

Israeli Forces drop warning leaflets, send mass texts, and deploy "roof knock" techniques before bombing a target.

So they let them know in advance that they are going to be homeless... How compassionate.

http://www.icahd.org/faq

http://icahd.org/node/458

http://www.ochaopt.org/annual/c2/8.html

homes.png

 

May I also remind everyone that it is the Jewish people that suffered mass genocide as the result of a political regime gaining control. I don't find their distrust or reaction too off the mark when it comes to defense.

Excuse me, sorry, but I find that amusing.

Giving yourself the label of Jew doesn't automatically make you a good person, or exempt you for otherwise barbaric acts of genocide, or make you oppressed, deserving of sympathy, or distrustful of others. (Unless, of course, you're talking to the average American. Then, the title magically trumps most other things.) Yeah, some great gran-grans survived some insane shit (in the north), and we should look out for it again, but how exactly does that relate to current events down in Israel? Well, maybe it does relate: Their "reaction" to the rebellion is the product of an extremely xenophobic police state, which forcefully injected itself into the area, which is probably why they're surrounded by around 22 potentially hostile nations who "aren't Jewish". I'm not that guy who compares everything to Nazis... but in this case I can just let google do the talking. Go ahead and google "Israel" and "Nazi" in the same query and see what pops up.

It's pretty silly to compare Jews to Nazis right? That's the thing though, nobody is. The Government of Israel is completely capable of acting reprehensibly without anybody referencing any present Judaism. Also, if this makes any sense: I actually hate Islam and Judaism as ideas equally, but I can still see bullshit inequality when it happens.

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Both of you read way too far into this quote:

May I also remind everyone that it is the Jewish people that suffered mass genocide as the result of a political regime gaining control. I don't find their distrust or reaction too off the mark when it comes to defense.

This is saying "because of the past, I think their distrust is warranted". It doesn't say anything about justifying actions.

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@DeadHamster
 

Really dude? Take a chill pill, you're foam at the mouth. Seriously, you're tossing our conjecture like it's cool. You've provided not a single scrap of evidence or proof. At least Mars is logical and provides some kind of basis of proof.

Yeah, I know why Stalin shwacked 7 Million and Mao 77 Million and Tojo 5 Million and  Pol Pot 1.5 Million and Leopold II 8 Million. I'm pretty certain I've spent more time scratching my ass than you've put into any kind or research or reading into any of the genocides.

I don't know why homosexuals and the mentally infirm weren't provided land. Maybe it was because homosexuals and the mentally infirm weren't imprisoned based on their ethnicity. If it bothers you that much just e-mail the UN and pester them about it.

Next time you want to address me, you come like a logical, sane person who's got a point. Not a zealot with an anti-semitic hard-on.

 

As far as atrocities being a "do what you want" pass, take a look at African American culture in the US. Now you go ahead and you spout some shit about that, or is the distaste only for the Israelis?

 

From this point forward I really don't give a flying fuck on a cracker what you've got to say. I'm dead serious, put your feelings on a letter to yourself and go fury fap about it. 

@Mars

Valid points all around, but I disagree and I will continue to disagree. I think it's best if we both just agree to disagree on this.

I'm going to try to maintain an unbiased standpoint as much as possible when posting about current events. At this point it is a moot point of who is hostile to who, it isn't going to result in anything good for anyone.

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@Mars

Valid points all around, but I disagree and I will continue to disagree. I think it's best if we both just agree to disagree on this.

I'm going to try to maintain an unbiased standpoint as much as possible when posting about current events. At this point it is a moot point of who is hostile to who, it isn't going to result in anything good for anyone.

Fair enough! I like how you keep us informed. :L

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This isn't a black and white scenario, one side is fighting for their identity as people and land, the other their right to live in their existing homes and land, and both have valid agendas. However I'd liken the history of this war as two siblings who clearly can’t get along, fighting over who owns their mother (land) more, when both equally share the same mother (currently destroying her mind you). Both deserve several slaps on the head, a time out and a manual of how to accept differences and coexist. If anything I will have to agree (as the past dictates) any biased third party involvement on either side has only escalated adverse events, where one side feels bullied more than the other and ups the ante. Sadly it has reached a dismal point where neither feels secure enough to let go of their external connections or radical factions as the distrust of one another is that intense.

This war for land perpetuates on mutual hate and then mutates into something entirely on its own that will never end until both parties come to an agreement to accept what is the reality of the situation (they currently coexist always have and always will unless they wipe each other out), acknowledge each other’s differences and grow the hell up. If anything we need to stop supporting one's plight more than the other, cease providing military support to fight the war on either side and stop tallying causalities like a live scoreboard to somehow validate one side is fighting more fairly (war is never fair, innocent casualties will always exist). Last but not least we need to understand the humanitarian crisis arising from this war and try to minimise that instead of the focus on justifying why one Palestinian or Israeli life is worth more than the other. They are equivalent, arguing otherwise is irrelevant.

Edited by Pandora
swamp, xvii, WaeV and 1 other like this

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