World Conflict Thread

[pong 187]

Why the fuck are you guys defending a country that shouldn't even fucking be there? Holy shit! Seriously? Generally when countries take over other countries or dissolve them, that's that, but in Israel's case we try to reform it THOUSANDS of years after someone else dissolved it. WTF

[swamp 1,017]

Why the fuck are you guys defending a country that shouldn't even fucking be there? Holy shit! Seriously? Generally when countries take over other countries or dissolve them, that's that, but in Israel's case we try to reform it THOUSANDS of years after someone else dissolved it. WTF

Religion.

[Risk 1,828]

Yo Weps, you have a status of the situation in Ukraine? That plane crash probably shook things up a bit. I haven't seen anything regarding the area (except the recent headline) for a bout a month.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Risk

[WaeV 5,049]

I found a cool "friendship chart" detailing who's on who's side right now:

With overlapping civil wars in Syria and Iraq, a new flare-up of violence between Israel and the Palestinians, and tense nuclear talks with Iran, Middle Eastern politics are more volatile than ever and longtime alliances are shifting. Here's a guide to who's on whose side in the escalating chaos

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

 

Lol @ nobody being friends with ISIS.

[Kalipsan 494]

Yo Weps, you have a status of the situation in Ukraine? That plane crash probably shook things up a bit. I haven't seen anything regarding the area (except the recent headline) for a bout a month.

 

I'd like to know this too; with the possible involvement of Russia this must have made things more real for some. 

[Weps 1,378]

Yo Weps, you have a status of the situation in Ukraine? That plane crash probably shook things up a bit. I haven't seen anything regarding the area (except the recent headline) for a bout a month.

 

 

I'd like to know this too; with the possible involvement of Russia this must have made things more real for some. 

 

It's been crazy. The Separatists have all kinds of Russian supplied hardware. They've been shelling various locations within Ukraine and storming various political, industrial and professional buildings in the cities, shooting down Ukrainian military aircraft, most recently an SU-25 and An-29. They control various areas, depending on the demographics of an area, if it's heavily Russian speaking, than it tends to support the Separatists. 

 

Ukrainian Forces have been shelling back at various locations on the Russian border, last reported was a border checkpoint in the southern Rostov region.

 

The MH-17 incident has stirred the pot, but not as much as you would think. It's caught the world's attention, rather than that of Ukraine, which I suspect was the point. Russia is sending a message to US, NATO and EU and it's a really fucking bloody one.

 

NATO has granted Ukraine a quasi-ally state, which gives them the opportunity for NATO support. As of the 19th there have been reports that the Netherlands and the US have been discussion a military incursion into Ukraine to secure the MH-17 site. This has royally pissed of the Russians, we just took a shit in Putin's yard. I don't foresee any incursion, just more sanctions rhetoric, even if Russian Forces roll into Ukraine proper. 

 

As it stands, Russia has massed 47,000 personnel on the Ukrainian-Russian border. As mentioned in the MH-17 thread, they've sent in Spetsnaz to training, organize, and lead the Separatists, which is and will give the Russians inside combat capabilities and intelligence.

 

Lots of political ruffling going on, inner bickering between various legitimate and illegitimate parties claiming control and sovereignty.

 

 

http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/17-of-july-russians-shelling-luhansk-airport-with-mrls-grad-now?ll=48.419175922509005;39.37980651855504&zoom=8

 

 

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/over-20-civilians-killed-in-rocket-fire-in-luhansk-on-july-18-356694.html

 

 

Rock Solid Politics ‏@BradCabana 6m

PICTURES TODAY knocked out #Ukraine APCs - #cdnpoli #Donetsk #Luhansk pic.twitter.com/aPYD5pmOTX

 

Russian Foreign Minister: Russia will retaliate in reaction to US imposing new sanctions over Ukraine crisis - @Reuters

End of alert

 

So it's no problem for the intl community that as soon as Ukr. troops approach the Rus border,they get killed?! Fine. pic.twitter.com/nr7rYWr4P0

[Risk 1,828]

Holy crap. Russia is on one. Just a few years ago I thought they had slowed their role, but nope. But hey, they're not the first country to do this kind of stuff. Just goes to show that the U.S. isn't the only country capable of doing these sort of things.

[Kalipsan 494]

Wow, everything seems more real reading your post, Weps. I had no idea all of that was going on. 

[Weps 1,378]

Not a problem guys, the world is falling to shit...gotta keep up with it some how.

 

So here's something really F'in stupid;
 

 

US Surrenders Naval Logistics Supremacy

Without underway replenishment ships, America’s ability to project power in wartime will shrivel.

 

If the United States wants to escape the danger zone in its strategic competition with China — disproving Beijing’s fancy that it can rule the Western Pacific — decommissioning the U.S. Navy’s fastest, most capacious combat logistics ships is no way to do it. Just the opposite. It telegraphs that America is no longer serious about fighting far from North America for long spans of time. Competitors will take note.

 

Yet budget-cutters in Washington are compelling naval leaders to consider narrowing this competitive advantage. And they’re doing so at a time when China finally appears to be putting its own combat logistics house in order after decades of neglect. Over at Defense News, Chris Cavas reports that U.S. Navy officials are considering decommissioning — or laying up, a halfway status between active service and the boneyard — the workhorse Supply-class T-AOEs.

T-AOEs are big, fast ships. In effect they’re mobile, floating warehouses that deliver fuel, ammunition, and stores of myriad types to task forces underway at sea. They displace about the same as a big-deck amphibious carrier such as USS America, a newcomer to the active fleet. And unlike their slower, smaller brethren, they can keep up with the speediest non-nuclear ships in the U.S. Navy fleet. The picture at the top depicts USS Sacramento, one of the Supply‘s forebears, rearming not one but two Iowa-class battleships at the same time, in the Persian Gulf in 1991. That gives you an idea of the size and capability of these vessels.

That’s an unglamorous capability, to be sure. But it’s a capability as irreplaceable as weapons and sensors for pummeling enemy fleets or enemy shores. Underway replenishment — UNREP, meaning the capacity to refuel, rearm, and reprovision at sea without detouring into port — has constituted a core U.S. Navy advantage since the days when seamen bearing names like Halsey and Spruance plied the deep. It makes the fleet a free-range fleet. Task forces thus equipped can roam the seas without putting into port for supplies. Mahan noted, in his pre-UNREP age, that warships without forward bases are like “land birds,” unable to fly far from home. So it is for seagoing forces without their own logistics contingents.

UNREP is handy in peacetime. It’s indispensable in wartime, when no friendly port may be nearby. Without supply ships, a task force has to quit its station to find stores. Abandoning contested waters surrenders command of those waters, or leaves soldiers or marines stranded on hostile shores without naval fire or air support. This is a bad thing all around. Before he met his maker, General Tōjō credited U.S. Navy UNREP as one of three decisive factors in Imperial Japan’s downfall. High praise from a defeated foeman. Combat logistics, then, is an operational technique commanding strategic importance.

Think about logistics ships this way. Mahan depicts foreign commerce, merchant and naval shipping, and forward bases as the three struts on which sea power rests. UNREP vessels comprise part of two, not just one, of Mahan’s nautical pillars. They’re ships, obviously. But they’re also substitute bases. So if adding stores ships lets U.S. Navy task forces fight or patrol the sea continuously, subtracting them compromises two pillars of American sea power. The same might be said of destroyer and submarine tenders, floating workshops that can manufacture spare parts and fix all manner of engineering troubles without requiring a visit to a shore maintenance depot. The navy’s tender fleet is woefully thin as well, at two sub tenders.

Granted, the maneuvering over the Supply-class T-AOEs is part of the never-ending kabuki dance over the defense budget. It does appear, nevertheless, that a weird dynamic has taken over Beltway deliberations over the past few years. The administration and Congress constrict naval spending more and more obtusely even as the need for a fleet with surplus capability — a fleet capable of taking heavy losses in combat and fighting on anyway — grows inexorably. It’s almost as though our leaders are deliberately recreating Walter Lippmann’s pre-World War II era of “monstrous imprudence,” when Washington took on vast Pacific commitments yet skimped on the naval means to defend them.

We know how well that worked out. The “just-in-time” philosophy currently in vogue in industry seems to have seeped into military and congressional thinking. To keep costs low, that is, business potentates maintain no excess inventory, getting widgets out to users when they demand it. That works fine for commercial enterprises. No one tries to interdict commercial supply chains. But if a navy maintains just enough logistics capacity to get by during peacetime steaming, when the demand is relatively low, what happens in wartime, when demand for supplies spikes and stays spiked? Bad things, methinks.

And how about when a smart adversary targets the UNREP fleet? That’s what I would do if — heaven forbid — some rash individual gave me command of Chinese or Iranian anti-access forces. Skip the combatants. They’re difficult targets. Cripple or sink the combat logistics fleet and the carriers, cruisers, and destroyers shrivel on the vine, deprived of the fuel and stores they need to remain on station. They’ll go away, or maintain an intermittent presence at best. The anti-access defender gains time and options — or wins outright.

Better an excess than a shortfall of logistics ships, then. As Admiral Wylie points out, Congress makes strategic decisions through the budgeting process all the time. In this case, capping the means necessary to stage operations along the Asian rimlands could rule out little things like, oh, honoring the U.S. security treaty with Japan, keeping the Strait of Hormuz open, or upholding the rule of law on the high seas. A just-in-time fleet optimized for peacetime cruising is apt to be an oops fleet in wartime.

 

 

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/us-surrenders-naval-logistics-supremacy/

 

 

[Weps 1,378]

UKRAINE-RUSSIA UPDATE!!!

US State Dept. reporting Russian Military Forces inside of Russia now shelling Ukrainian Forces in Ukraine. This isn't Separatists, this is the actual Russian Military now shelling over the border into Ukraine, in conjunction with Separatists shelling.

 

This is not good. This escalates this from a simple "Proxy Conflict" to an actual shooting war between Ukraine and Russia...and Ukraine will NOT win. Russia will now be able to bring the full weight of it's military force. I will not be surprised if we see Russian T-80's and T-90's roll over into Ukraine by next week, they have an obscene amount of armor alone....22,000 total inventory last DoD report. We (US) come in a trailing third, behind China. with 8,000 total inventory.

 

Washington (AFP) - The United States on Thursday said it had evidence Russian forces were firing artillery from inside Russia on Ukrainian troops, in what officials called a "clear escalation" of the conflict.

http://news.yahoo.com/evidence-moscow-firing-russia-ukraine-troops-us-181508795.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

UPDATE:

 

Steiner @Steiner1776 · 3h 

#Novorossiya Devastating scenes from the southern frontline.
Parts of the 79th #Ukraine regime brigade got wiped out
pic.twitter.com/uLgOq1rCTU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_YdY_F1fk#t=12

 

Rebel POV
South Front @southfronteng · 46m
24 07.2014 miltary report of #Novorossia. War in #Ukraine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG-ZOWn-6hQ

 

Gregor Peter @L0gg0l · 32m
Ukraine finance minister:
"As of August 1, we'll have nothing to pay the military,"
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?id=523665 …


Rock Solid Politics @BradCabana · 3h
LMAO @CNN you are a joke.
Not one word about the fall of the #Ukraine gov and the Prime Minister.
Not a word. YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY #press

 

Shelling into Ukraine; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvkZGR4VGZk

 

Saboteurs at work; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yewfnzHcnHo

 

 

Russian Forces in Russia firing BM-21 Grad into Ukraine.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1SQWcKJ1rg#t=12

 

Russian soldier posting about firing into Ukraine on Facebook;

 

 

Russian Force have been suspected of firing M-21 and 152mm artillery with sub-munitions (cluster) payloads. For those that aren't familiar this is what sub-munitions look like;

 

 

Results of a Grad strike;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9iCq0k0PEY#t=161